I meant “condone” in the sense that it doesn’t disapprove of slavery. And I have had Christians I work with tell me unequivocally that the Bible approves of slavery, by virtue of the fact that it speaks to the master/slave relationship as you have cited, and does not condemn it. I just don’t find it very credible that an ominpotent God could issue commands against “graven images” “adultery” “theft” and “false worship” but didn’t think it was important to tell his children that they couldn’t own each other.

“While you were in the womb I knew you” tells us nothing about the status of a zygote. There is nothing incompatible with the two passages you cite and the ancient belief that a fetus was imbued with a soul at quickening, and at that point became a human being.

The specific fundamentalist I was referring to is named Bob Enyart and he had a “Christian” TV show that was broadcast in Oklahoma (and elsewhere I believe). I don’t think he could utter more than a couple of sentences without the word “homosexual” and he advocated the death penalty for both homosexual behavior and the possession of pornography. Also, there are a number of Christian groups, such as the Chalcedon Foundation, that advocate elimination of our constitution and the imposition of Biblical Law. This is one of the reasons I am motivated to ask you these questions. I just can’t see how the Bible is any better guide to law making than reason and common sense. And I think you say as much when you speak to all the different ways the Bible is misinterpreted. If in fact, your interpretation differs from someone else’s, the only way you can settle the issue is through reason and common sense.

I commend you on your willingness to specify that a woman killing her unborn child should be executed (where that is the law) just like any other premeditated murderer. I often ask this question, I rarely get a forthright answer.

You are wrong when you state that the Bible “condones” slavery. It does no such thing. It neither condones nor condemns the practice. It does, however, speak to the nature of a relationship between a slave and his or her master. And this is done, not in support of the practice but merely in assent to the knowledge that the practice existed and was wide-spread at the time Scripture was written. This was necessary because many masters and slaves became Christians and the Bible spoke to their conduct in one of the primary earthly relationships they had. You are correct in saying many Christians used “slavery” passages in Scripture to justify the practice. But they, too, did so out of a gross misinterpretation of Scripture in an effort to support their own agenda.

No, I am not a Catholic, you may have me confused with someone else who posts here. I do not subscribe to their notion that opposes birth control and do so because they cannot show Scriptural support for that belief. They merely point to a papal decree that outlaws the practice.

I don’t know what “fundamentalists” you’ve heard advocating the death penalty for the possession of pornography, but I’ve never run across them. Nor would I support such a penalty.

Finally, I see no Scriptural distinction between the murder of an adult and the murder of an unborn child. I think the two should be considered the same. Abortion should be outlawed just as any other form of murder is outlawed. Anyone who kills an unborn child should be punished in the same fashion as any other murderer.

Most of the contentious issues that relate to Christian application of Biblical authority regard the regulation of sexual behavoir –things like adultery, cohabitation, masturbation, birth control, homosexuality, and pornography. I’m not inclined to include abortion in this category because by generation of another human being it moves beyond activity between consenting adults. We could also include things like “Blue Laws,” which I am old enough to have experienced, though I’m not aware of any such laws in existence today. And then there is the matter of slavery, which the Bible condones, a fact which was used by southern Christians to justify their own application of slavery.

I believe you said you are Catholic, so I would ask by what right the Catholic Chruch seeks to impose on my wife and I a prohibition of measures to prevent pregnancy? Yet the Catholic Church in Ireland, and here (less effectively) long prevented the sale of condoms based on a Catholic interpretation of Scripture that is by no means universal among Christians. More to the point, on what Scriptural basis does a Christian determine what constititues pornography, what laws, if any, should regulate it’s distribution, and how the creation or possession of it should be punished? I’ve heard fundamentalists advocate the death penalty for possession of pornography.

Why should there be no legal penalty for adultery? What is the Scriptural basis for this position? What should the penalties be for having an abortion? What is the Scriptural basis for one punishment over another? If an unborn baby is a person, and killing it is murder, what is the Scriptural basis for punishing an aborting mother any differently that any other premeditated murderer?

With regard to the laws enforced by the state (and this is what you’ve been asking about all along, I think). Christians use the OT as a guide for laws because, even though the OT theocratic penalties no longer apply, the principles for living do still apply. They are still God’s standard for perfection. The framework through which Christians would apply these laws in also in Romans. Paul describes earthly governments as God’s instrument of justice. Laws exist to restrain evil. The parts of the OT law that deal with our relationships with one another and the prohibitions against encroaching on one anothers rights are a great guide for our laws. I think we all would agree it’s a good thing to prohibit theft, and murder, and so on.

While adultery should have no legal penalty (such as jail time) it should remain one of the acceptable grounds for divorce (as is stated in Scripture). Abortion should be illegal, not because it is explicity prohibited in Scripture, but because the principles for it’s prohibition exist there. Murder is our taking someone elses life. Scripture indicates that unborn babies are, in fact, people and not just some unviable tissue mass. So it is not a leap at all to understand that killing an unborn baby is murder just as much as killing an adult is murder.

To answer yours: No, I don’t love God 1) for the same reason I don’t love Santa –he doesn’t exist; and 2) if he did exist, he would be the author of evil, and I can’t see myself loving a being with the power to do absolutely anything, that chose, among other things, to create a world where children are raped, abused, tortured, and murdered. And no, I don’t love my neighbor as myself, and neither does anyone else in the world. In fact, given the nature of man the whole notion is absurd, and can’t stand even the most casual examination.

When Christ came to earth, it was not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Only He could do that. But now the bar is raised even further. Now, not only is the deed a sin, but also the thought. Christ left the law to be a tool by which we could measure how far we are away from hitting the mark. It is designed to make you look within yourself and discover that you indeed do need a Savior. Without one you are lost forever. The law also lets us know how very much Christ has done for us, i.e that even the leasst breaking of the law would doom you. The NT summarizes the law in this way: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strengtn. This is the first and great commandment. A second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself”.

Do you love the Lord your God? Do you love your neighbor as yourself?

Matthew 5:17-21

When Christ came to earth, it was not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Only He could do that. But now the bar is raised even further. Now, not only is the deed a sin, but also the thought. Christ left the law to be a tool by which we could measure how far we are away from hitting the mark. It is designed to make you look within yourself and discover that you indeed do need a Savior. Without one you are lost forever. The law also lets us know how very much Christ has done for us, i.e that even the leasst breaking of the law would doom you. The NT summarizes the law in this way: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strengtn. This is the first and great commandment. A second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself”.

Do you love the Lord your God? Do you love your neighbor as yourself?

Matthew 5:17-21

You’re saying all the sins of Leviticus are still sins, and the law still applies, but “strict enforcement of the law’s punishment” is no longer in force? Is that right? So then, what is “strict enforcement.” Are you saying the laws are still enforced, but, say, an adulterer should be jailed or fined instead of stoned to death? Or are you saying that sometimes an adulterer will be punished and sometimes not? On what basis do you appropriate the apparatus of the State for legal sanction, impose one punishment over another, or decide a sin won’t be punished at all? When you appropriate the apparatus of the State to codifiy a Biblical “sin,” on what basis are you entitled to impose punishment for this sin on a non-believer, or for that matter, even a believer?

So, to belabor: adultery is still a sin? Theft is still a sin too, right? And murder? Dissing your parents? Coveting your neighbors ass? Believing in false Gods (so all non-Christians are sinners aren’t they?)? Making a graven image? Lying (or at least “bearing false witness”)? So which of these sins should be “illegal” under federal, state, and local laws? How should they be punished? What is the basis for using the apparatus of the State to enforce laws against abortion, homosexual marriage, sodomy, or selling on Sunday, and not for disrespecting parents. Why not stone adulterers to death?