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	<title>Comments on: Disturbed</title>
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		<title>By: Daniel M</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-40139</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-40139</guid>
		<description>unless &lt;a href=&quot;http://contraception.about.com/od/hormonalcontraception/f/Stoptheegg.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; and many other supporting documents are flat out lies, ovulation does not occur. No egg.

The rest of the effects of the pill are similarly documented, and similarly as I described them (and my thoughts on that - you did read the rest of it, didn&#039;t you?).

If you want to believe that there&#039;s some great conspiracy to keep the truth about the pill hidden from the public world-wide, then  go ahead. It becomes obvious at that point that there is no rational argument that will persuade you otherwise.

I have said all I needed to say about my views and I have demonstrated what I take as an error in your understanding. Anything further would be repeating myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>unless <a href="http://contraception.about.com/od/hormonalcontraception/f/Stoptheegg.htm" rel="nofollow">this</a> and many other supporting documents are flat out lies, ovulation does not occur. No egg.</p>
<p>The rest of the effects of the pill are similarly documented, and similarly as I described them (and my thoughts on that &#8211; you did read the rest of it, didn&#8217;t you?).</p>
<p>If you want to believe that there&#8217;s some great conspiracy to keep the truth about the pill hidden from the public world-wide, then  go ahead. It becomes obvious at that point that there is no rational argument that will persuade you otherwise.</p>
<p>I have said all I needed to say about my views and I have demonstrated what I take as an error in your understanding. Anything further would be repeating myself.</p>
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		<title>By: UnspeakablyViolentJane</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-40078</link>
		<dc:creator>UnspeakablyViolentJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-40078</guid>
		<description>No Dude.  While you are on the pill or an IUD you still produce an egg.  You still get your period.  Part of getting the prescription is learning that conception still occurs from your doc, lest it be in conflict with your morality.

And this is why many states have laws already in place outlawing the pill in the event that Row v Wade is overturned.

As you are clinging to the idea that conception does not occur, I&#039;m guessing that it bothers you, in which case, use a condom, or get fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Dude.  While you are on the pill or an IUD you still produce an egg.  You still get your period.  Part of getting the prescription is learning that conception still occurs from your doc, lest it be in conflict with your morality.</p>
<p>And this is why many states have laws already in place outlawing the pill in the event that Row v Wade is overturned.</p>
<p>As you are clinging to the idea that conception does not occur, I&#8217;m guessing that it bothers you, in which case, use a condom, or get fixed.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-40077</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-40077</guid>
		<description>Ah, you learn something new every day!

Personally I do not believe that a person begins at conception, I think it begins much later. I will readily say I don&#039;t know when that is, but that to avoid pain in all it&#039;s forms any attempts at preventing a pregnancy should be done as early as is possible.

To correct you, apparently the hormones from pills and IUD&#039;s prevents ovulation (so no egg to fertilize), prevents the sperm from entering the egg or the uterus (so no fertilized egg in the first place) as well as the third action of preventing a fertilized egg from attaching itself and growing into an embryo (let alone a foetus or a baby) in the first place.

I don&#039;t see that as abortion, as in the first two (and most common) cases it certainly isn&#039;t - and for the most part, this is what happens.

In the last case, after looking at it rationally, I can&#039;t see a small bundle of cells as a person. I bite off more cells that that when I bite my nails (filthy habit). I yank out more cells than that when I comb my hair. When I shower, more cells than that sluice down the drain.

Whilst they won&#039;t on their own spontaneously grow into a human, we know it IS possible to give them enough of a nudge to grow a clone - so unless we need to provide a burial service for every follicle, I am more than happy that the e-pill exists and is used.

Of course, using a condom not only prevents sperm from getting any near any eggs in the first place but also protects from STD&#039;s - they do not have microscopic holes and they do work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, you learn something new every day!</p>
<p>Personally I do not believe that a person begins at conception, I think it begins much later. I will readily say I don&#8217;t know when that is, but that to avoid pain in all it&#8217;s forms any attempts at preventing a pregnancy should be done as early as is possible.</p>
<p>To correct you, apparently the hormones from pills and IUD&#8217;s prevents ovulation (so no egg to fertilize), prevents the sperm from entering the egg or the uterus (so no fertilized egg in the first place) as well as the third action of preventing a fertilized egg from attaching itself and growing into an embryo (let alone a foetus or a baby) in the first place.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see that as abortion, as in the first two (and most common) cases it certainly isn&#8217;t &#8211; and for the most part, this is what happens.</p>
<p>In the last case, after looking at it rationally, I can&#8217;t see a small bundle of cells as a person. I bite off more cells that that when I bite my nails (filthy habit). I yank out more cells than that when I comb my hair. When I shower, more cells than that sluice down the drain.</p>
<p>Whilst they won&#8217;t on their own spontaneously grow into a human, we know it IS possible to give them enough of a nudge to grow a clone &#8211; so unless we need to provide a burial service for every follicle, I am more than happy that the e-pill exists and is used.</p>
<p>Of course, using a condom not only prevents sperm from getting any near any eggs in the first place but also protects from STD&#8217;s &#8211; they do not have microscopic holes and they do work.</p>
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		<title>By: UnspeakablyViolentJane</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-40058</link>
		<dc:creator>UnspeakablyViolentJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-40058</guid>
		<description>The pill doesn&#039;t prevent conception.  It prevents the fertilized egg from implanting on the uterine wall.  The morning after pill is just the equivalent of three pills.  Then comes RU-486 for anyone under 12 weeks, and then a D&amp;C.

An IUD also causes the fertilized egg to fail to land.

So in essence, they cause abortions.  Like most women on birth control, I use the pill, but I think if you are of the opinion that life begins at conception, it&#039;s good to know how they work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pill doesn&#8217;t prevent conception.  It prevents the fertilized egg from implanting on the uterine wall.  The morning after pill is just the equivalent of three pills.  Then comes RU-486 for anyone under 12 weeks, and then a D&amp;C.</p>
<p>An IUD also causes the fertilized egg to fail to land.</p>
<p>So in essence, they cause abortions.  Like most women on birth control, I use the pill, but I think if you are of the opinion that life begins at conception, it&#8217;s good to know how they work.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-40056</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-40056</guid>
		<description>I think any form of birth control which prevents conception is acceptable as a form of birth control - abstinence, condoms (and related) and the pill (and related).

Going on from that, the &quot;morning after pill&quot; is less preferred (mainly because of the possibility of side-effects) and the only reason you should be taking such a pill is because you messed up and weren&#039;t on the pill and/or using a condom in the first place (leaving both partners vulnerable to STD&#039;s) and really, really need to do better next time.

The last method, the very last method, the most painful to prevent an unwanted child is an abortion - hence every effort should be made to prevent an abortion from being necessary.

Don&#039;t get me wrong - abortions should be safe, sane and legal, but there should also be &lt;i&gt;zero&lt;/i&gt; unnecessary abortions.

And to cover all bases, religious people may have the objection that murder is a sin (and that abortion is murder), but that doesn&#039;t stop atheist people from seeing abortions as the ending of a potential and unique human life, and as such that it is not something to take lightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think any form of birth control which prevents conception is acceptable as a form of birth control &#8211; abstinence, condoms (and related) and the pill (and related).</p>
<p>Going on from that, the &#8220;morning after pill&#8221; is less preferred (mainly because of the possibility of side-effects) and the only reason you should be taking such a pill is because you messed up and weren&#8217;t on the pill and/or using a condom in the first place (leaving both partners vulnerable to STD&#8217;s) and really, really need to do better next time.</p>
<p>The last method, the very last method, the most painful to prevent an unwanted child is an abortion &#8211; hence every effort should be made to prevent an abortion from being necessary.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong &#8211; abortions should be safe, sane and legal, but there should also be <i>zero</i> unnecessary abortions.</p>
<p>And to cover all bases, religious people may have the objection that murder is a sin (and that abortion is murder), but that doesn&#8217;t stop atheist people from seeing abortions as the ending of a potential and unique human life, and as such that it is not something to take lightly.</p>
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		<title>By: UnspeakablyViolentJane</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-39979</link>
		<dc:creator>UnspeakablyViolentJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-39979</guid>
		<description>Daniel M, do you think that the pill is an acceptable form of birth control?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel M, do you think that the pill is an acceptable form of birth control?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel M</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-39978</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-39978</guid>
		<description>I think RAT&#039;s blog entry was highly insulting and inappropriate.

I do not seriously think that there are any atheists who believe that abortion is an acceptable form of birth control.

I do not think that you have to be atheist to be &quot;pro life&quot; or &quot;pro choice&quot; - the two are not related at all, the only &quot;link&quot; is through this sort of abhorrent yellow journalism that tries to prove that 2+2=5 by saying that pro-choice means baby-eating rampant fornication, and that because the stars are aligned just right, that&#039;s what atheism is.

You fail reading comprehension 101, RAT - Trina Hoaks says that both theist AND atheist people may be worried by the decision, but that (naturally) christian (which in the USA often means right wing and pro-life, do you deny that?) groups will be beside themselves (it means they&#039;re upset, if you didn&#039;t understand) whilst liberal (naturally, as they are usually by definition pro-all-sorts-of-choices) groups will be happy.

This is not surprising. It&#039;s not contraversial. I fail to see what you&#039;re upset about - I think it&#039;s just another soap-box for you, since you seem to be just..well..raving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think RAT&#8217;s blog entry was highly insulting and inappropriate.</p>
<p>I do not seriously think that there are any atheists who believe that abortion is an acceptable form of birth control.</p>
<p>I do not think that you have to be atheist to be &#8220;pro life&#8221; or &#8220;pro choice&#8221; &#8211; the two are not related at all, the only &#8220;link&#8221; is through this sort of abhorrent yellow journalism that tries to prove that 2+2=5 by saying that pro-choice means baby-eating rampant fornication, and that because the stars are aligned just right, that&#8217;s what atheism is.</p>
<p>You fail reading comprehension 101, RAT &#8211; Trina Hoaks says that both theist AND atheist people may be worried by the decision, but that (naturally) christian (which in the USA often means right wing and pro-life, do you deny that?) groups will be beside themselves (it means they&#8217;re upset, if you didn&#8217;t understand) whilst liberal (naturally, as they are usually by definition pro-all-sorts-of-choices) groups will be happy.</p>
<p>This is not surprising. It&#8217;s not contraversial. I fail to see what you&#8217;re upset about &#8211; I think it&#8217;s just another soap-box for you, since you seem to be just..well..raving.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Walden</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-39412</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Walden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-39412</guid>
		<description>So you&#039;re admitting that the view shared by most people who use the term fundamentalism is that it&#039;s describing people who are in their perception worthy of ridicule. What was your original point again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;re admitting that the view shared by most people who use the term fundamentalism is that it&#8217;s describing people who are in their perception worthy of ridicule. What was your original point again?</p>
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		<title>By: Jahrta</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-39390</link>
		<dc:creator>Jahrta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-39390</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say &quot;fundamental&quot; was a denomination, Lily. I view biblical literists as fundamentals. I believe most people share this view. People who believe that earth is 6K years old, or that pi = 3, or that an old man built an ark that could carry two of every living creature over a global flood (what did the carnivores eat? How did plant-life survive?). People who think gays are inherently evil. People who don&#039;t believe in evolution. Should I go on? These are the people who are worthy of ridicule. Not just from the atheist community, but from your own as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say &#8220;fundamental&#8221; was a denomination, Lily. I view biblical literists as fundamentals. I believe most people share this view. People who believe that earth is 6K years old, or that pi = 3, or that an old man built an ark that could carry two of every living creature over a global flood (what did the carnivores eat? How did plant-life survive?). People who think gays are inherently evil. People who don&#8217;t believe in evolution. Should I go on? These are the people who are worthy of ridicule. Not just from the atheist community, but from your own as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jahrta</title>
		<link>http://ravingatheist.com/2009/01/disturbed/comment-page-1/#comment-39389</link>
		<dc:creator>Jahrta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ravingatheist.com/?p=2811#comment-39389</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, I do not associate any particular fiscal policy with neocons, other than the fact they are ultra-conservative. Fiscally speaking, I am also conservative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I do not associate any particular fiscal policy with neocons, other than the fact they are ultra-conservative. Fiscally speaking, I am also conservative.</p>
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